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Tuesday, January 15, 2013
January 17…The Purposes Public Schooling
Have
you thought about the role of schools in the U.S.?What do you make of Counts’ challenge to use
public schools to remake society, given what you know of contemporary politics?
I think that there are several roles of public schools in the United States. These roles are; to provide an educational baseline, increase positive social behavior, help with assimilation of US customs for foreign children, provide equal opportunities to all races, sexes and people from different economic backgrounds, and lastly keep children busy thus decreasing boredom and the likelihood of them getting into trouble. I feel that Mr.Count believes that currently public schools are keeping society in at a standstill. A majority of society cannot afford to send their children to private progressive thinking schools so they rely on public schools. This creates an economic separation and this shows in the quality of education allowed to be provided to the students of the respective types of schools. That in order for progress to be made the shackles placed on our schools teachers must be removed. The Government denies our countries pupils a true chance at Progressive Education because they limit what is taught. It is best to hear the whole story and come up with your own individualized opinion then to have a specific view thrust upon you. This allows for deeper, more diverse thoughts and discussions. The expansion of thought about life and all of its facets is the true force behind the Progression of Education.
I believe the role of public schools is to provide an equal opportunity to individuals to get an education.
I think Count’s ideas have little chance of succeeding. Count wants schools to remake and change society. However, who controls the public school system? Obviously, the government therefore they have a great stake in what occurs in school. For example, they can determine what is taught, what the curriculum will be. During the space race between Russia and the United States, the US government placed higher focus on math and science requiring extra courses to be taught for these subjects. The government dictated that these courses be taught so the US could stay one step ahead of the Soviet Union since the US will have a strong batch of scientists once the current generation retires. In this instance, the times changed the schools; the schools did not change society.
I compare Count’s view with the expression, “winners write the history books.” The winners would have an upper hand and henceforth present the information from their perspective. Likewise, the government can determine from what perspective the information is taught. The perspective they determine to be the best. As stated in the reading, the Russian official said pro-communistic courses are not taught in school yet the students favored communism. Likewise, in the US, teachers may not have said that democracy is the best form of government yet most students favor democracy in the US. The way the curriculum was shaped eventually led students to the belief the government wanted them to have.
If teachers do not comply with the curriculum they may lose their job. Therefore, the schools cannot truly bring about a new social order since schools and teachers do not have much authority.
Schools do not have one simple role in the United States; they are a place to hopefully obtain an education, of course, but also a plausible tool of social change. Schools are centered around student development so it would completely make sense that public schools be used as the setting to remake and rebuild a stronger society. However, at this point I don’t necessarily believe that this is possible in this day in age to get the government to assign educators the writ of ‘society-reformer.’ Considering that the idea of Progressive education seems to scare the majority of those who have the power the implement it into our current way of doing things.
From what I understand of Counts’ challenge, in order make long-lasting changes, students must have a profound understanding of the world around them. Students must also have strong, unwavering beliefs so that they will be more motivated to challenge something, instead of just being passive. It was mentioned how children are heavily influenced by their families and how many parents attempt to stray them away from sensitive and controversial topics. They do this out of fear that their children will involve themselves in extreme causes and not have a good adulthood. Children spend a great deal of time at school, so Counts believes that teachers should use their position and time to convince students to develop and follow their own passions and not be mediocre. Counts mentions how people will change their opinions in order to gain public favor or to remain in a safe position in society. He asserts how damaging this can be and insists that people be bold enough to shape their own lives as well as the world around them.
Schools are supposed to bring people of different backgrounds together and encourage interaction. Public schools in particular can be considered more inclusive since money is not a constraint. Many schools provide access to numerous online resources and books, and school organizations make it easy for students to get involved and express themselves. However, at the same time, bringing many people together all at once can lead to conflicts and bullying. Some schools may have more resources than others, and students can go through school without really making a significant contribution. Also, if a student doesn’t seem to be progressing or putting in any effort, some teachers may decide to give up on him or her and move on to other priorities. The U.S., like other nations, wants to remain competitive in the job market; in order to do this, it most likely requires pushing the strong students ahead and leaving the weak ones behind. This also means favoring some areas of study more than others, and this can really put some students in a bind. I think most people fear big change and taking huge risks, especially if their own well-being is at stake. Hence, there is not much room for the reform that Counts envisions.
Public schools serve a multitude of services in the U.S., but most importantly, they allow for a diverse student body to receive a free, fair and equal education.
In contrast to Faisal's post, I believe that Count's ideas, while however likely or unlikely they may be, need to succeed in order for there to be successful public schools. While yes, the government would have a say in what happens in schools, teachers can unionize for changes. I also think that in order for public schools and Count's ideas to be successful, an end would have to be put to privatized, or "progressive" schools. For as long as they exist, there will always be unequal education due to the widening achievement gap. Count just hammers on Progressives who notice these problems, but seek to solve them through isolation of class. Current day Progressives push the idea that charter schools can solve the education crisis which is highlighted in this article here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-jones/charter-schools-and-civil_b_757792.html
Having gone through the public schooling system, i believe from personal experience that the role of schools is to introduce us to a diverse group of people we might not have met without going to school and becoming exposed to the diverse opinions of others. In regard to the educational aspect of schools, I believe its role is to introduce you to a variety of topics and to help you decide what you're passionate about and what you're not. It helps you develop more as a person and give you an environment where you can form you opinions about certain issues and express them amongst your peers.
Although Counts' challenge is a noble one and something that should be considered and thought more deeply about; in modern day American politics, remaking society through public schools seems unfeasible. I say this because, as he discussed in the reading, public school has always and will always be controlled by the more well to do in the government. So I believe that if one were to try and remake society through the use of public schools, the control of school would have to shift entirely away from the source that has been causing the problem the whole time. The higher ups in government issue standards and knowledge they see as fitting to know in an educated democratic society, but in all actuality this is very democratic at all. If I had it my way, I would do away with the government issued standardized tests and i would let the schools systems decided one what should be taught in order to produce more knowledgeable and inquisitive young adults.
However, it would take a lot of petitioning, and a lot of time and effort put in by the people of America to have the public education system reformed. And that is precisely why I don't see the reform happening anytime in the near future. No one wants to step up and head such a massive task because they put so much of themselves at risk. Although I do believe that society can change if public school are changed, I see it being a very slow and long process in the making, if it ever happens. Seeing as how education is low on the list compared to other issues the country has to deal with such as healthcare, international relations, the economy and so on.
Schools in the United States have a very powerful role. Public schools provide an equal opportunity to education regardless of race, gender, culture or socioeconomic status. Schooling is the foundation of a children’s learning and socialization process. Through schools, students become contributing members of the society. Due to the fact that in a school setting students are malleable and impressionable, it may be theoretically possible to use schooling to rebuild a society but highly unlikely. Counts calls upon the teachers to use their authority and their position as educators to manipulate students to improve society. Counts’ challenge to remake society through education would not be feasible in the United States because our society is so heavily dependent upon the student. For example, the No Child Left Behind Act is based solely on the child and the specific testing that is mandatory, giving less power to the teacher.
There’s a societal balance that is important to maintain between education and the rest of society. Society definitely affects education, for example, mandating healthy food in public schools due to issues with obesity. However, education has an important role in society, such as whether or not a child was socialized in public schools and how that affects their life outside of school. Society cannot completely manipulate the school system and the school system cannot rebuild society, the two go hand and hand.
The American public school system (as we know it today) is a combination of many factors and individuals such as the second great awakening, Horace Mann, The progressive movement (in response to large amounts of immigration, and public need. But todays public school tracking system is a remnant of a system set up in the 1950s to fit Americas economic and demographic needs.
Now as some one who has been through public and private schooling (k-8 public, 9-12 private), and have seen different school systems abroad (Rural Kenya and Austrian Gymnasium); I do not fully agree with Count. In fact I am actually quite against many of his views, especially on the teachers right to say what they believe. To quote him
"I would merely contend that as educators we must make many choices involving the development of attitudes in boys and girls and that we should not be afraid to acknowledge the faith that is in us or mayhap the forces that compel us"
While teachers should be exited to teach and show it, this statement along with other similar opens the door to more problems than they solve.
Teachers need to be held to a standard; while they may not be perfect, they are a way to ensure children are being taught the proper material at a reasonable rate. If we just let teachers "decide" what is moral or correct, what will stop a science teacher from telling their students that Evolution is false and that their god created everything? While this may seem like a weak "slippery slope" argument, there are already hundreds of cases of teachers doing this exact thing.
Kids today are straight up not learning,(Or teachers are not teaching, or parents not getting involved). While instilling a sense of moral stability and social understanding is important, if a student can barely spell his name or cannot create a simple sentence,then no amount of "social understanding" can help this kid become an active member of today's competitive job market.
Count brings up some interesting points and like anything they should be reviewed and critiqued objectively and fairly, but I believe his argument does not tackle the major issue of children not being able to grasp the simplest aspects of their subjects.
While I fully believe in, (What i think is an argument similar to Abraham Flexner's "The usefulness of useless knowledge")Students must first learn the basics of their subjects and HOW to learn, before they answer the big questions
I think schools have many roles. Nonetheless, I think a school’s main role is to provide education to anyone who is willing to learn, no matter the circumstances they are in or where they come from. A school provides people with vital knowledge needed in order to succeed in today’s society. Count said that education needed to be unrestrained and unsuppressed. I have never felt that my education inhibited anything. He wants students to learn about the world around him or her. I’ve definitely done that through learning in public schools. I don’t believe that needs to change. However, his view that teachers should push students into a direction instead of letting them find their own way has some truth in it. He’s not necessarily claiming that the teacher should force their ideas and beliefs onto a student. I think Count is trying to make a point that educators themselves can have a great amount of influence on their students. In this way, a school can direct society into being what they want it to be. I don’t agree with the fact that he thinks students are not willing to solve a problem when a social situation arises. In school, we are taught from day one, solve this problem. I’m pretty sure everyone who has an opinion in the political world would agree that they think they know what is right and what should be done. Overall, there are some points I agree with and some points I disagree with. I don’t think his plan would work.
Education is the key to life and an individual’s overall success. I think of it as being the key to the “American Dream”. Schools are supposed to provide an equal opportunity in education, an equal opportunity at the “American Dream”, but that does not seem like the case.
After reading Count’s passage, the role of schools has shifted, when interests shifted from politics and started focus on economics, the government began using schools as an excuse to get as much money as they can out of the American people, in order to feed the economy. Money equals power. Power equals control. Yes, I agree with Faisal, the government controls our schools, but I think they control it in order to make our economy strive.
I believe heavily in the statements “children are our tomorrow” and “train up a child in the way they should go, and when they grow old they shall not depart from it”. Even though the government controls what is taught at schools, teachers have the final say. They have the power to change society by THEIR teachings, and not just what they are told to teach based on SOL and other standardized tests. They hold part of the power in remaking society, by giving students a new way of thinking. “The process of building a good society is to a very large degree an educational process,” (pg. 15). It will not work, because the government surprisingly has so much control in this democracy, that they will eliminate anyone who challenges their authority. Agreeing with Count, Teachers don’t have enough authority in society; therefore, the public schools cannot change society, they just simply evolve with society.
Public schools in the U.S have long been both a way to equalize opportunities for students as well as a method to prepare them for their eventual place in society. While it obviously fails to achieve these goals in some cases and needs improvement, its basic role is to improve quality of life through social interaction and the pursuit of knowledge.
Counts' idea of reshaping society through the education system makes sense, starting with the program through which all U.S citizens must pass to gain influence in that society. Eventually the small changes begun in the public school system will spread ideas to the government and society will slowly morph. However, seeing as the education system is run by the government, simply "changing" public schooling harbors more difficulties. Specifically as Counts mentions, the idea that the United States is becoming more liberal and free with each year, which is accompanied by ideas that children cannot be molded in any way, that they must be free to mold themselves, while the truth is they do need some guidance. For these reasons simply remaking society with progressive education would require extensive work.
I believe that providing an equal opportunity for students of all demographics and backgrounds to access a worthwhile education fairly well represents the role of public schools in the United States. Although this may be the overarching role, it is evident this ideal is not always true. Firstly, given that state government runs most public education systems, there is a discrepancy in equality of financial resources between states. Therefore, the education a child receives in one state may not necessarily correlate to a different child in another state. Secondly, resources do not only vary between states, they vary within different counties and or regions within states. Clearly, the opportunity and quality of public education is not so equal.
Counts’ discussion of his belief of how public schools could be used to remake society is interesting. What I mean by “interesting” is the fact that his work was published in 1937. For 1937, I was fascinated by how many of his complaints and grievances against that social climate are very similar to today. Society’s use of technology is still increasing at a fast pace, parents with higher social status and/or class are still weary of exposing their children to the real world, and schools are still seemingly “devoted to motion” for motion’s sake alone. I feel a main goal of today’s public education is a race “in circles,” as Counts describes. For example, many public school systems today are fixated on reaching standards of learning and achieving benchmarks to increase its reputation, while losing sight of the fundamental reasons for education itself. I also agree with the part of Counts’ argument that a lot of social pressure does fall on teacher’s shoulders, however, that pressure is necessary in order to break away from generalized version that many classes take on today because of curriculum requirements that are required across many educational systems.
Essentially, I believe a lot of what Counts says is true. Including his conclusion, which explains the hard-to-reach conditions that would be necessary in order for his challenge to start transforming society. This is the idea that society as a whole must undergo a paradigm shift where the powerful support the weak, the classes are leveled, and the government can make more decisions in everyday life, which is a strongly socialist notion, even communistic. However, given the attitude of many Americans, which is to support the cause of social change on an exterior level, but secretly wanting to conserve our luxuries and way of life on an internal level, it seems considerably implausible. In others words, until Americans are willing to face their fear of change, social change through public education will be difficult to achieve.
I believe that the role of public education is to promote “social well being” efficiently and effectively amongst the vast majority of children in our society.
Counts’ argument about using schools to remake society was very compelling. Throughout his argument he proposed that a progressive style education that has a sense of direction is what modern day education needs in order to be successful. Count argues that the current education system is too focused on individualism and being a free spirit rather than molding our children into a something that is beneficial to society as a whole. Although this argument is very logical and convincing, the institution of this social change is unfortunately hardly realistic in our current political environment. As Count said in the beginning of his article “almost everywhere it is in the grip of conservative forces and is serving the cause of perpetuating ideas and institutions suited to an age that is gone.” our education system is being controlled by an outdated conservative force that holds a lot of power. Now if any social change is to be instituted there will likely be a huge backlash from this conservative power due to the loss of power. So in order for Count to be able to institute his solution he must somehow gain the support of those with the vast majority of power. The question now is one able to do that? Especially in a political environment in which bipartisanship seems to be becoming a dying art.
I believe that the role of public schools is to provide a fair education to children, regardless of their background. However, I would also agree with Count that education in general should “promote the fullest and most thorough understanding of the world.” I do not think it is actually possible to teach children to understand the world in its entirety, but rather it is important to teach children the skills they will need to understand and learn about the world.
Considering this paper was written in 1932, I think the radical nature of Count’s assertions about the school system make sense. From what I understand, this was a time period all of intense international change, and, as Count points out, the condition of the school system follows the condition of society; when society is undergoing massive change, so does/should the schools. If this actually happened following the publication of this paper, I do not know.
Count’s diagnosis of the problem in the school system as one of a lack of direction I think is very true; the United States government is facing this same issue currently. The Department of Education (as far as I know) has no “plan for the future” per se, other than one of using standardized testing to help improve test scores (both across the nation and in international competition). This, however, I think, is an artificial benchmark, as tests cannot measure how much someone is learning; in turn, I do not think that raising test scores is a legitimate direction for the school system to pursue.
Regarding Count’s assertion that it is the right, or even duty, of teachers to actively pursue and seize power, and then use that power to impose certain ideals that would help remake society and prevent society from collapsing or regressing, I think is an interesting idea, but nothing more than that. Count then continues in what became more and more nationalistic language (although he defended that is was a matter of necessity for direction not pure patriotism) saying that the new power of the teacher to impose things upon their students should be used to impose the ideals of the legacy of the “American Dream” and the previous glory of the United States, and so encourage the newest generation to fight (with revolution if necessary) to bring this back. While I do enjoy entertaining the idea of a country governed by educators, I do not think that this language is conducive to real results, especially since that language slips in to the dangerous zone of sounding “manifesto-y”. As well, I do not think that something on that scale of radical is possible in today’s political and economic situation; just take for example the difficulty finding the proper response to the Newtown shooting; even the massacre of children cannot unite the country in to action. However, maybe Count is right, and it is teachers who can lead us, unite us, and bring about real societal change.
I believe that education and especially schools are a great way to change any societal issues we are facing nowadays. I think so because all the students in any particular class are definitely going to be the future, so if time was invested by teachers in educating their students about issues of social injustice, that will prove to be successful in the future. Many might argue that teachers should not really be focusing on addressing such issues as much as they should be focusing on academics. I disagree with that because I believe that if implemented correctly, societal issues can be addressed efficiently with academics in a classroom setting. My concern is who will overlook such discussions of societal issues in the classroom? Will it be overlooked by the government to ensure teachers discuss such issues within limits? Will all teachers discuss such issues equally effectively?
Even for the industrial age, Counts approach to progessive education seems too conservative. It is way too polarized, in the sense that it is mostly teacher-centered. An ideal article integrates both perceptions on a topic. Counts perspective on progessive education cannot be applied to today's defintion. But the foundations of incorporationg group work, social skills in education, varied learning resources, and other fallacies are still present. In more recent terms, progressive education has taken a leap after "No Child Left Behind" was passed. Rather than using traditional test-oriented instructions classes incorporate progessive education. The movement has ended but it has changed modern education. The differences in socioeconomics makes it difficult to compare today's education to that in the midst of the Progressive Education Movement. As the middle class increases so does the ability to get hands on the latest technology, which fuels today's schools and universities. During the early 19th century, schools largely focused on university preparation. That still remains the core of the school system; with private schools and prep schools having a large focus than public schools. But administration behind public schools understands that there is more international competition, as students come from across the world with higher degrees to work in the United States. The new millenium sparked a new era of technology-focused education. Where students from Japan, China, Europe, India, and other countries with reputable school systems have started a new Cold War, only this time it's based around education.
Hey! I missed this one, because I wasn't in the class yet!
Well, now I'm posting WAY late, but I just wanted to talk about this a little bit. I really couldn't say what I thought the purpose of schooling was before this class began. I am not sure I even really thought about it. I do know that I worked hard to get good grades, and I believed that school was going to just get me into the world with a fancy 4.0 slapped on my forehead. That was my honest attitude. I treated every class like it was my favorite, but hated most of them. School was simply a necessary evil. I was, however, extremely lucky to attend a small, liberal, hippy school from 6th to 12th grade. Where I felt like my classes were hindering me, the culture and social education I received at my school made up for it all. I met all sorts of people from all over my county, meaning students from every different social, culturally, and racial background. That was a fantastic experience.
As of now, I believe that school should create well-rounded citizens. I think it should prepare students for whatever path they want to take in life, and encourage them to reach beyond what seems realistic. There's plenty of time for "real world" when school is over, but our education should prepare us to dream big, and live wholly.
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ReplyDeleteI think that there are several roles of public schools in the United States. These roles are; to provide an educational baseline, increase positive social behavior, help with assimilation of US customs for foreign children, provide equal opportunities to all races, sexes and people from different economic backgrounds, and lastly keep children busy thus decreasing boredom and the likelihood of them getting into trouble.
ReplyDeleteI feel that Mr.Count believes that currently public schools are keeping society in at a standstill. A majority of society cannot afford to send their children to private progressive thinking schools so they rely on public schools. This creates an economic separation and this shows in the quality of education allowed to be provided to the students of the respective types of schools. That in order for progress to be made the shackles placed on our schools teachers must be removed. The Government denies our countries pupils a true chance at Progressive Education because they limit what is taught. It is best to hear the whole story and come up with your own individualized opinion then to have a specific view thrust upon you. This allows for deeper, more diverse thoughts and discussions. The expansion of thought about life and all of its facets is the true force behind the Progression of Education.
Craig Luskey
I believe the role of public schools is to provide an equal opportunity to individuals to get an education.
ReplyDeleteI think Count’s ideas have little chance of succeeding. Count wants schools to remake and change society. However, who controls the public school system? Obviously, the government therefore they have a great stake in what occurs in school. For example, they can determine what is taught, what the curriculum will be. During the space race between Russia and the United States, the US government placed higher focus on math and science requiring extra courses to be taught for these subjects. The government dictated that these courses be taught so the US could stay one step ahead of the Soviet Union since the US will have a strong batch of scientists once the current generation retires. In this instance, the times changed the schools; the schools did not change society.
I compare Count’s view with the expression, “winners write the history books.” The winners would have an upper hand and henceforth present the information from their perspective. Likewise, the government can determine from what perspective the information is taught. The perspective they determine to be the best. As stated in the reading, the Russian official said pro-communistic courses are not taught in school yet the students favored communism. Likewise, in the US, teachers may not have said that democracy is the best form of government yet most students favor democracy in the US. The way the curriculum was shaped eventually led students to the belief the government wanted them to have.
If teachers do not comply with the curriculum they may lose their job. Therefore, the schools cannot truly bring about a new social order since schools and teachers do not have much authority.
Faisal Ali
Schools do not have one simple role in the United States; they are a place to hopefully obtain an education, of course, but also a plausible tool of social change. Schools are centered around student development so it would completely make sense that public schools be used as the setting to remake and rebuild a stronger society. However, at this point I don’t necessarily believe that this is possible in this day in age to get the government to assign educators the writ of ‘society-reformer.’ Considering that the idea of Progressive education seems to scare the majority of those who have the power the implement it into our current way of doing things.
ReplyDeleteSarah Meier
From what I understand of Counts’ challenge, in order make long-lasting changes, students must have a profound understanding of the world around them. Students must also have strong, unwavering beliefs so that they will be more motivated to challenge something, instead of just being passive. It was mentioned how children are heavily influenced by their families and how many parents attempt to stray them away from sensitive and controversial topics. They do this out of fear that their children will involve themselves in extreme causes and not have a good adulthood. Children spend a great deal of time at school, so Counts believes that teachers should use their position and time to convince students to develop and follow their own passions and not be mediocre. Counts mentions how people will change their opinions in order to gain public favor or to remain in a safe position in society. He asserts how damaging this can be and insists that people be bold enough to shape their own lives as well as the world around them.
ReplyDeleteSchools are supposed to bring people of different backgrounds together and encourage interaction. Public schools in particular can be considered more inclusive since money is not a constraint. Many schools provide access to numerous online resources and books, and school organizations make it easy for students to get involved and express themselves. However, at the same time, bringing many people together all at once can lead to conflicts and bullying. Some schools may have more resources than others, and students can go through school without really making a significant contribution. Also, if a student doesn’t seem to be progressing or putting in any effort, some teachers may decide to give up on him or her and move on to other priorities. The U.S., like other nations, wants to remain competitive in the job market; in order to do this, it most likely requires pushing the strong students ahead and leaving the weak ones behind. This also means favoring some areas of study more than others, and this can really put some students in a bind. I think most people fear big change and taking huge risks, especially if their own well-being is at stake. Hence, there is not much room for the reform that Counts envisions.
Navami Ravindra
Public schools serve a multitude of services in the U.S., but most importantly, they allow for a diverse student body to receive a free, fair and equal education.
ReplyDeleteIn contrast to Faisal's post, I believe that Count's ideas, while however likely or unlikely they may be, need to succeed in order for there to be successful public schools. While yes, the government would have a say in what happens in schools, teachers can unionize for changes.
I also think that in order for public schools and Count's ideas to be successful, an end would have to be put to privatized, or "progressive" schools. For as long as they exist, there will always be unequal education due to the widening achievement gap. Count just hammers on Progressives who notice these problems, but seek to solve them through isolation of class. Current day Progressives push the idea that charter schools can solve the education crisis which is highlighted in this article here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-jones/charter-schools-and-civil_b_757792.html
Katie Ketcham
Having gone through the public schooling system, i believe from personal experience that the role of schools is to introduce us to a diverse group of people we might not have met without going to school and becoming exposed to the diverse opinions of others. In regard to the educational aspect of schools, I believe its role is to introduce you to a variety of topics and to help you decide what you're passionate about and what you're not. It helps you develop more as a person and give you an environment where you can form you opinions about certain issues and express them amongst your peers.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Counts' challenge is a noble one and something that should be considered and thought more deeply about; in modern day American politics, remaking society through public schools seems unfeasible. I say this because, as he discussed in the reading, public school has always and will always be controlled by the more well to do in the government. So I believe that if one were to try and remake society through the use of public schools, the control of school would have to shift entirely away from the source that has been causing the problem the whole time. The higher ups in government issue standards and knowledge they see as fitting to know in an educated democratic society, but in all actuality this is very democratic at all. If I had it my way, I would do away with the government issued standardized tests and i would let the schools systems decided one what should be taught in order to produce more knowledgeable and inquisitive young adults.
However, it would take a lot of petitioning, and a lot of time and effort put in by the people of America to have the public education system reformed. And that is precisely why I don't see the reform happening anytime in the near future. No one wants to step up and head such a massive task because they put so much of themselves at risk. Although I do believe that society can change if public school are changed, I see it being a very slow and long process in the making, if it ever happens. Seeing as how education is low on the list compared to other issues the country has to deal with such as healthcare, international relations, the economy and so on.
- Jordan Hiegel
Schools in the United States have a very powerful role. Public schools provide an equal opportunity to education regardless of race, gender, culture or socioeconomic status. Schooling is the foundation of a children’s learning and socialization process. Through schools, students become contributing members of the society. Due to the fact that in a school setting students are malleable and impressionable, it may be theoretically possible to use schooling to rebuild a society but highly unlikely. Counts calls upon the teachers to use their authority and their position as educators to manipulate students to improve society. Counts’ challenge to remake society through education would not be feasible in the United States because our society is so heavily dependent upon the student. For example, the No Child Left Behind Act is based solely on the child and the specific testing that is mandatory, giving less power to the teacher.
ReplyDeleteThere’s a societal balance that is important to maintain between education and the rest of society. Society definitely affects education, for example, mandating healthy food in public schools due to issues with obesity. However, education has an important role in society, such as whether or not a child was socialized in public schools and how that affects their life outside of school. Society cannot completely manipulate the school system and the school system cannot rebuild society, the two go hand and hand.
Rachel Hudgens
Stewart Bova,
ReplyDeleteThe American public school system (as we know it today) is a combination of many factors and individuals such as the second great awakening, Horace Mann, The progressive movement (in response to large amounts of immigration, and public need. But todays public school tracking system is a remnant of a system set up in the 1950s to fit Americas economic and demographic needs.
Now as some one who has been through public and private schooling (k-8 public, 9-12 private), and have seen different school systems abroad (Rural Kenya and Austrian Gymnasium); I do not fully agree with Count. In fact I am actually quite against many of his views, especially on the teachers right to say what they believe. To quote him
"I would merely contend that as educators we must make many choices involving the development of attitudes in boys and girls
and that we should not be afraid to acknowledge the faith that is in us or mayhap the forces that compel us"
While teachers should be exited to teach and show it, this statement along with other similar opens the door to more problems than they solve.
Teachers need to be held to a standard; while they may not be perfect, they are a way to ensure children are being taught the proper material at a reasonable rate. If we just let teachers "decide" what is moral or correct, what will stop a science teacher from telling their students that Evolution is false and that their god created everything? While this may seem like a weak "slippery slope" argument, there are already hundreds of cases of teachers doing this exact thing.
Kids today are straight up not learning,(Or teachers are not teaching, or parents not getting involved). While instilling a sense of moral stability and social understanding is important, if a student can barely spell his name or cannot create a simple sentence,then no amount of "social understanding" can help this kid become an active member of today's competitive job market.
Count brings up some interesting points and like anything they should be reviewed and critiqued objectively and fairly, but I believe his argument does not tackle the major issue of children not being able to grasp the simplest aspects of their subjects.
While I fully believe in, (What i think is an argument similar to Abraham Flexner's "The usefulness of useless knowledge")Students must first learn the basics of their subjects and HOW to learn, before they answer the big questions
I think schools have many roles. Nonetheless, I think a school’s main role is to provide education to anyone who is willing to learn, no matter the circumstances they are in or where they come from. A school provides people with vital knowledge needed in order to succeed in today’s society.
ReplyDeleteCount said that education needed to be unrestrained and unsuppressed. I have never felt that my education inhibited anything. He wants students to learn about the world around him or her. I’ve definitely done that through learning in public schools. I don’t believe that needs to change. However, his view that teachers should push students into a direction instead of letting them find their own way has some truth in it. He’s not necessarily claiming that the teacher should force their ideas and beliefs onto a student. I think Count is trying to make a point that educators themselves can have a great amount of influence on their students. In this way, a school can direct society into being what they want it to be.
I don’t agree with the fact that he thinks students are not willing to solve a problem when a social situation arises. In school, we are taught from day one, solve this problem. I’m pretty sure everyone who has an opinion in the political world would agree that they think they know what is right and what should be done. Overall, there are some points I agree with and some points I disagree with. I don’t think his plan would work.
Harrison Sun
Education is the key to life and an individual’s overall success. I think of it as being the key to the “American Dream”. Schools are supposed to provide an equal opportunity in education, an equal opportunity at the “American Dream”, but that does not seem like the case.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Count’s passage, the role of schools has shifted, when interests shifted from politics and started focus on economics, the government began using schools as an excuse to get as much money as they can out of the American people, in order to feed the economy. Money equals power. Power equals control. Yes, I agree with Faisal, the government controls our schools, but I think they control it in order to make our economy strive.
I believe heavily in the statements “children are our tomorrow” and “train up a child in the way they should go, and when they grow old they shall not depart from it”. Even though the government controls what is taught at schools, teachers have the final say. They have the power to change society by THEIR teachings, and not just what they are told to teach based on SOL and other standardized tests. They hold part of the power in remaking society, by giving students a new way of thinking. “The process of building a good society is to a very large degree an educational process,” (pg. 15). It will not work, because the government surprisingly has so much control in this democracy, that they will eliminate anyone who challenges their authority. Agreeing with Count, Teachers don’t have enough authority in society; therefore, the public schools cannot change society, they just simply evolve with society.
Arielle Preston
Public schools in the U.S have long been both a way to equalize opportunities for students as well as a method to prepare them for their eventual place in society. While it obviously fails to achieve these goals in some cases and needs improvement, its basic role is to improve quality of life through social interaction and the pursuit of knowledge.
ReplyDeleteCounts' idea of reshaping society through the education system makes sense, starting with the program through which all U.S citizens must pass to gain influence in that society. Eventually the small changes begun in the public school system will spread ideas to the government and society will slowly morph. However, seeing as the education system is run by the government, simply "changing" public schooling harbors more difficulties. Specifically as Counts mentions, the idea that the United States is becoming more liberal and free with each year, which is accompanied by ideas that children cannot be molded in any way, that they must be free to mold themselves, while the truth is they do need some guidance. For these reasons simply remaking society with progressive education would require extensive work.
Taylor Thornberg
I believe that providing an equal opportunity for students of all demographics and backgrounds to access a worthwhile education fairly well represents the role of public schools in the United States. Although this may be the overarching role, it is evident this ideal is not always true. Firstly, given that state government runs most public education systems, there is a discrepancy in equality of financial resources between states. Therefore, the education a child receives in one state may not necessarily correlate to a different child in another state. Secondly, resources do not only vary between states, they vary within different counties and or regions within states. Clearly, the opportunity and quality of public education is not so equal.
ReplyDeleteCounts’ discussion of his belief of how public schools could be used to remake society is interesting. What I mean by “interesting” is the fact that his work was published in 1937. For 1937, I was fascinated by how many of his complaints and grievances against that social climate are very similar to today. Society’s use of technology is still increasing at a fast pace, parents with higher social status and/or class are still weary of exposing their children to the real world, and schools are still seemingly “devoted to motion” for motion’s sake alone. I feel a main goal of today’s public education is a race “in circles,” as Counts describes. For example, many public school systems today are fixated on reaching standards of learning and achieving benchmarks to increase its reputation, while losing sight of the fundamental reasons for education itself. I also agree with the part of Counts’ argument that a lot of social pressure does fall on teacher’s shoulders, however, that pressure is necessary in order to break away from generalized version that many classes take on today because of curriculum requirements that are required across many educational systems.
Essentially, I believe a lot of what Counts says is true. Including his conclusion, which explains the hard-to-reach conditions that would be necessary in order for his challenge to start transforming society. This is the idea that society as a whole must undergo a paradigm shift where the powerful support the weak, the classes are leveled, and the government can make more decisions in everyday life, which is a strongly socialist notion, even communistic. However, given the attitude of many Americans, which is to support the cause of social change on an exterior level, but secretly wanting to conserve our luxuries and way of life on an internal level, it seems considerably implausible. In others words, until Americans are willing to face their fear of change, social change through public education will be difficult to achieve.
Laura Zoellner
I believe that the role of public education is to promote “social well being” efficiently and effectively amongst the vast majority of children in our society.
ReplyDeleteCounts’ argument about using schools to remake society was very compelling. Throughout his argument he proposed that a progressive style education that has a sense of direction is what modern day education needs in order to be successful. Count argues that the current education system is too focused on individualism and being a free spirit rather than molding our children into a something that is beneficial to society as a whole. Although this argument is very logical and convincing, the institution of this social change is unfortunately hardly realistic in our current political environment. As Count said in the beginning of his article “almost everywhere it is in the grip of conservative forces and is serving the cause of perpetuating ideas and institutions suited to an age that is gone.” our education system is being controlled by an outdated conservative force that holds a lot of power. Now if any social change is to be instituted there will likely be a huge backlash from this conservative power due to the loss of power. So in order for Count to be able to institute his solution he must somehow gain the support of those with the vast majority of power. The question now is one able to do that? Especially in a political environment in which bipartisanship seems to be becoming a dying art.
Brandon Henton
I believe that the role of public schools is to provide a fair education to children, regardless of their background. However, I would also agree with Count that education in general should “promote the fullest and most thorough understanding of the world.” I do not think it is actually possible to teach children to understand the world in its entirety, but rather it is important to teach children the skills they will need to understand and learn about the world.
ReplyDeleteConsidering this paper was written in 1932, I think the radical nature of Count’s assertions about the school system make sense. From what I understand, this was a time period all of intense international change, and, as Count points out, the condition of the school system follows the condition of society; when society is undergoing massive change, so does/should the schools. If this actually happened following the publication of this paper, I do not know.
Count’s diagnosis of the problem in the school system as one of a lack of direction I think is very true; the United States government is facing this same issue currently. The Department of Education (as far as I know) has no “plan for the future” per se, other than one of using standardized testing to help improve test scores (both across the nation and in international competition). This, however, I think, is an artificial benchmark, as tests cannot measure how much someone is learning; in turn, I do not think that raising test scores is a legitimate direction for the school system to pursue.
Regarding Count’s assertion that it is the right, or even duty, of teachers to actively pursue and seize power, and then use that power to impose certain ideals that would help remake society and prevent society from collapsing or regressing, I think is an interesting idea, but nothing more than that. Count then continues in what became more and more nationalistic language (although he defended that is was a matter of necessity for direction not pure patriotism) saying that the new power of the teacher to impose things upon their students should be used to impose the ideals of the legacy of the “American Dream” and the previous glory of the United States, and so encourage the newest generation to fight (with revolution if necessary) to bring this back. While I do enjoy entertaining the idea of a country governed by educators, I do not think that this language is conducive to real results, especially since that language slips in to the dangerous zone of sounding “manifesto-y”. As well, I do not think that something on that scale of radical is possible in today’s political and economic situation; just take for example the difficulty finding the proper response to the Newtown shooting; even the massacre of children cannot unite the country in to action. However, maybe Count is right, and it is teachers who can lead us, unite us, and bring about real societal change.
Manon Loustaunau
I believe that education and especially schools are a great way to change any societal issues we are facing nowadays. I think so because all the students in any particular class are definitely going to be the future, so if time was invested by teachers in educating their students about issues of social injustice, that will prove to be successful in the future. Many might argue that teachers should not really be focusing on addressing such issues as much as they should be focusing on academics. I disagree with that because I believe that if implemented correctly, societal issues can be addressed efficiently with academics in a classroom setting. My concern is who will overlook such discussions of societal issues in the classroom? Will it be overlooked by the government to ensure teachers discuss such issues within limits? Will all teachers discuss such issues equally effectively?
ReplyDeleteMohamed Ibrahim
Even for the industrial age, Counts approach to progessive education seems too conservative. It is way too polarized, in the sense that it is mostly teacher-centered. An ideal article integrates both perceptions on a topic. Counts perspective on progessive education cannot be applied to today's defintion. But the foundations of incorporationg group work, social skills in education, varied learning resources, and other fallacies are still present. In more recent terms, progressive education has taken a leap after "No Child Left Behind" was passed. Rather than using traditional test-oriented instructions classes incorporate progessive education. The movement has ended but it has changed modern education.
ReplyDeleteThe differences in socioeconomics makes it difficult to compare today's education to that in the midst of the Progressive Education Movement. As the middle class increases so does the ability to get hands on the latest technology, which fuels today's schools and universities. During the early 19th century, schools largely focused on university preparation. That still remains the core of the school system; with private schools and prep schools having a large focus than public schools. But administration behind public schools understands that there is more international competition, as students come from across the world with higher degrees to work in the United States. The new millenium sparked a new era of technology-focused education. Where students from Japan, China, Europe, India, and other countries with reputable school systems have started a new Cold War, only this time it's based around education.
Jag Singh
Hey! I missed this one, because I wasn't in the class yet!
ReplyDeleteWell, now I'm posting WAY late, but I just wanted to talk about this a little bit. I really couldn't say what I thought the purpose of schooling was before this class began. I am not sure I even really thought about it. I do know that I worked hard to get good grades, and I believed that school was going to just get me into the world with a fancy 4.0 slapped on my forehead. That was my honest attitude. I treated every class like it was my favorite, but hated most of them. School was simply a necessary evil. I was, however, extremely lucky to attend a small, liberal, hippy school from 6th to 12th grade. Where I felt like my classes were hindering me, the culture and social education I received at my school made up for it all. I met all sorts of people from all over my county, meaning students from every different social, culturally, and racial background. That was a fantastic experience.
As of now, I believe that school should create well-rounded citizens. I think it should prepare students for whatever path they want to take in life, and encourage them to reach beyond what seems realistic. There's plenty of time for "real world" when school is over, but our education should prepare us to dream big, and live wholly.